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The Order of Céili Dé

I was just curious as to everyone's opinions on The Order of Céili Dé.  I fell in love with their message, but I also have read some pretty scathing things about their rewriting the history of Druidry as a "dewy eyed" version of the real history of Celtic paganism, and that their "syncretism" is a whitewashing, whereby their liberal Christian views eclipse the true pagan foundation on which they claim to build.

This was in Bonewits's Essential Guide to Druidism. 

The fact is, I am drawn to Celtic paganism AND Celtic Christianity.  I do not wish to look on the past with "dewy eyes", but want to hold it up as a salvation story in its own right.  Nor do I wish to pretty it up with Antiquarian Wiccan ideas that did not actually exist in the ancient Celtic world.

Can one be a Christopagan without actually saying that the Pagan past was in some way "incomplete" without Christ, that the Christ event was an historical fact?  Unless you see the Christian story as pure myth --one among many which you are intuitively drawn to but do not take as factually superior-- is there a way to honor the Old Ways without them being eclipsed by either Christian superiority or unhistorical romanticism?

I read somewhere -- perhaps the website for the Brigidine Sisters? -- that the Trinity was there long before Christianity came.  Of course, Celtic Reconstructionists scoff at the attempts at hind sight and attempts to "Christianize" the hard polytheism of the Celts.



( 12 comments — Leave a comment )
Dec. 9th, 2007 11:02 pm (UTC)
Not really answering your question, but some of Stephen Lawhead's books have a really good take on Celtic Christianity
Dec. 10th, 2007 12:23 am (UTC)
Dec. 10th, 2007 03:47 am (UTC)
i should have explained, they're fiction but he's obviously done his research

i remember "Patrick" being quite good on druidism etc, and his Song of Albion trilogy is quite dark, but good fantasy.

Dec. 10th, 2007 04:00 am (UTC)
I saw that. And quite happy! I have been on the prowl for good fiction. I have spent so much time reading theology, that I can count on one hand the number of fiction books I have read in the past ten years (minus the Harry Potter books). My spiritual director told me I need to do more right-brain activities before I implode, so I am quite happy with your recommendation. Thanks!
Dec. 10th, 2007 12:23 am (UTC)
But how can one be a Christopagan without actually saying that the Pagan past was in some way "incomplete" without Christ?

I wasn't aware this was a requirement to being a Christopagan. I myself "see the Christian story as pure myth --one among many which I am intuitively drawn to but do not take as factually superior".

I think I get what you're saying though. Most of the groups I've found(o the internet not IRL) have rewritten history to some degree to fit their own wishes and it really bothers me.

I would definitely try to do some more research into The Order of Céili Dé. I have an older book of Bonewits and if I remember correctly it was a little anti-Christianity. Perhaps he's changed or I'm remembering incorrectly but his review of them could be harsher than they deserve.

Good luck finding anything. I've had trouble myself, though for different reasons. I'm mostly Pagan and all of the Christopagan websites I've found focused too much on the Christ part and ignored Paganism almost altogether. And the Pagan sits ignore Christ completely. So it can be hard finding anything of use.
Dec. 10th, 2007 12:24 am (UTC)
Indeed. And Bonewits is still very anti-Christian. As are a lot of Pagans, it seems.
Dec. 10th, 2007 12:28 am (UTC)
I find that disappointing about Bonewits. The book I have of his is funny and well written. But I've read very few Pagan authors that don't take shots at Christianity.

And yes. The majority of Pagans I've met have been hurt in some way by Christians in the past and still hold a grudge. It took me ten years to get over mine but the thing is I never judged people for being Christopagan so I don't understand where people get off saying you have to be one or the other.

Well, like I said, good luck.
Dec. 10th, 2007 03:41 am (UTC)
While I sympathise, there are a few christian authors who take pot shots at paganism, and many completely misunderstand it.

All humans are guilty of being ignorant.

Not excusing bonewits though.

Dec. 10th, 2007 03:53 am (UTC)
Very true, very true. I need to stop expecting more of the underdog. Being oppressed does not necessarily mean that you will be more broad-minded. I know too many racist lesbians to believe in that one, lol.
Dec. 10th, 2007 04:05 am (UTC)
All humans are guilty of being ignorant.

True. I guess sometimes I expect authors to be more than human, which is silly.
Dec. 10th, 2007 10:10 am (UTC)
I don't know much about "The Order of Céili Dé". I'm actually more Christo-pagan and Kemetic Reconstructionist than anything else. Therefore I didn't investigate them very much. Although have you seen their website? http://www.ceilede.co.uk/

christiandruids [at] yahoogroups [dot]com might be useful for you. It is a somewhat high traffic list of mostly articles. Most of the articles are Druidic or Christian based although a variety of other paths also are represented in the articles.
Dec. 10th, 2007 01:47 pm (UTC)
thank you. Ive been looking for a christian druid group. i usually dont type in all low cases but i have a cat laying on my right arm.
( 12 comments — Leave a comment )



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